If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
41 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Duggerman
Administrator



...would you consider him an All-Time Great? (If you don't know who Andre Bishop is, he's the fictionalist protagonist in the Championship Mode for Fight Night Champion. It's a Hollywood-inspired story!)

When you look at the few things Andre did accomplish, he certainly has the makings of a great heavyweight champion. Think about it.

* He wins the gold model as an amatuer.

* He overcomes a five year layoff.

* He transitions successfully from middleweight to heavyweight.

* He knocks out Isaac Frost, who is a "friggin' animal!" The strategy, intelligence and heart he displayed to beat Frost shows that he belongs in an elite group of heavyweight champions. I'd like to see a sequel story to see how his championship run goes. At 33 years old, he might not have a lengthy reign as champion.

It's too soon to know if he would be an ATG but I think the potential is there. What do ya'll think? Remember that he's a fictional character so there's no real right or wrong. Just opinions.
Would Andre Bishop Be An All-Time Great?
You cannot change your vote after voting.
You have to vote before you can see the results.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Friday The 13th...
Good discussion topic!  He surely has the heart to be an all-time great. But for all we know he might lose his very first title defense! I doubt it, but who knows, really? But from what I've seen, he appears to be an all-time great in the making. Defeating Isaac Frost alone shows why he belongs.

I'll tell you who is NOT an all-time great, though. His ANNOYING big little brother Raymond. I can't stand that punk. I was glad to play as Isaac Frost and knock him out cold.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Hit Em' Hard
No he's not an ATG. Not even close.

For starters, beating Isaac Frost doesn't mean a lot. Frost was guided to the title by DL McQueen. You saw how McQueen was; paying judges off, paying referees, etc. He manipulates the system. That's how Isaac got a world title shot in less than two years and how "Baby Bishop" got a world title shot even sooner.

If Isaac won the title by his own merit, then it'd be different. Instead he's a big powerhouse with limited stamina. He's a mix of Ivan Dragu, Prime George Foreman, and WWE's Randy Orton.

All Andre Bishop did was expose Frost as a fighter with weak stamina who can be exploited by thinking fighters. So beating Frost isn't a big deal to me. Frost was another overhyped heavyweight champion. A creation of DL McQueen.

Andre moved up in weight to win the heavyweight title. But so did Michael and Leon Spinks! Michael Spinks could possibly beat Frost using the same tactics Andre Bishop did. Would you count Michael Spinks as an ATG? I sure don't!

Andre's story was great. Very Hollywood inspired like you said. But is he among the greatest of all time? Well, his story might be one of the greatest. But as a boxer, he isn't.


Friday The 13th... wrote

I'll tell you who is NOT an all-time great, though. His ANNOYING big little brother Raymond. I can't stand that punk. I was glad to play as Isaac Frost and knock him out cold.
What you said! And this is another example of DL McQueen guiding a non-experienced boxer to the title. Baby Bishop was far from ready for an opportunity like that. He had only been boxing for how long? A year? Come on.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Zombies Ate Me
The Governor wrote
Let me be the fisrt to say that Meagan McQueen is H-O-T!!



Duggerman wrote
She's easily my favorite thing about the Championship Mode. lol. She's based off Actress Pauline Egan.

Andre Bishop is an all-time great simply for tappin' that ass! She was clearly thirsty for his dick.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Hit Em' Hard
@Zombies. Yeah, Meagan was obsessed with bangin' Andre. She was really flirty with the man. I didn't know her looks were based off a real person. The game producers did a great job! She looks Identical. (And bangable fa 'sho)

Hit Em' Hard wrote
No he's not an ATG. Not even close.

For starters, beating Isaac Frost doesn't mean a lot. Frost was guided to the title by DL McQueen. You saw how McQueen was; paying judges off, paying referees, etc. He manipulates the system. That's how Isaac got a world title shot in less than two years and how "Baby Bishop" got a world title shot even sooner.

If Isaac won the title by his own merit, then it'd be different. Instead he's a big powerhouse with limited stamina. He's a mix of Ivan Dragu, Prime George Foreman, and WWE's Randy Orton.

All Andre Bishop did was expose Frost as a fighter with weak stamina who can be exploited by thinking fighters. So beating Frost isn't a big deal to me. Frost was another overhyped heavyweight champion. A creation of DL McQueen.

Andre moved up in weight to win the heavyweight title. But so did Michael and Leon Spinks! Michael Spinks could possibly beat Frost using the same tactics Andre Bishop did. Would you count Michael Spinks as an ATG? I sure don't!

Andre's story was great. Very Hollywood inspired like you said. But is he among the greatest of all time? Well, his story might be one of the greatest. But as a boxer, he isn't.
But in the short two hours you get to know Andre Bishop, he accomplishes a lot and I think it's more than fair to put him among the all-time greats.

I don't agree with the Spinks comparison because the circumstances were different. Leon Spinks beat old Ali in his 8th professional fight. Michael Spinks was given the nod by judges who did not want Larry Holmes to tie Rocky Marciano's record. Larry's losses to Spinks were political. If Larry was not threatening Rocky's record, the judges would have been fair and Spinks would have lost to Holmes. Twice.

Isaac Frost was guided to the title. I'm not arguing that. BUT he was still a beast. Good chin, huge size and huge power. He's more than a threat to any heavyweight champion.

Andre Bishop could use the same title-winning strategy he used on Frost to beat guys like Sonny Liston and George Foreman. They were similar to Isaac Frost, ya know.

But where does the Randy Orton comparison come into play? lol.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Hit Em' Hard
Urban Legend wrote
Andre Bishop could use the same title-winning strategy he used on Frost to beat guys like Sonny Liston and George Foreman. They were similar to Isaac Frost, ya know.

But where does the Randy Orton comparison come into play? lol.
Similar yes. As good? No. George Foreman, for example, cleaned out the heavyweight division before losing to Ali in Zaire. He had wins over Joe Frazier (who had been an dominating and undefeated champion before meeting Foreman), Ken Norton, and George Chuvalo. Tell me some big names Isaac Frost beat before the unsuccessful title defense against Andre Bishop?

As for the Randy Orton comparision, I'll let the picture do the talking. Isaac looks to be an even bigger stronger scarier version of Randy Orton. Not identical but strikingly similar.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Alexander
If Entaowed were here he'd go on and on about how he feels Isaac Frost is on PEDs. lol.
Based on what he accomplished I'd be comfortable calling Andre an ATG.
Sure there's no Listons, Foremans or Fraziers for him to fight.
But as someone said earlier, Isaac Frost was a huge monster in his own right.
Its not just the fact that Andre beat him...it's HOW he beat him.
Gus and Andre were a good team.
If they could come up with those brilliant strategies to beat Mr. "Ice Cold" then they could
develop strategies to beat anybody.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Zorro
Oh my goodness. Meagan looks a lot like my daughter! They resemble each other strongly.

Alexander wrote
If Entaowed were here he'd go on and on about how he feels Isaac Frost is on PEDs. lol.
I'm afraid you're right. But to be fair he has slacked up on the steroid tirades. He found other ways to annoy us, unfortuneatly.

I'm an old man and don't follow video games but from what I'm seeing this is interesting. Is there a way I can see the story without buying/playing the game?

And here's a fair question: Could this Andre character beat Joe Louis? In my opinion Joe was the ultimate fighting machine. He could do it all and I don't see many (if anyone) who can beat him at his very best. No matter what strategy he uses I don't see Andre winning. But I do wanna see him fight first before I make a real judgement and compare him to the greats.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Maximillian
Zorro wrote
Oh my goodness. Meagan looks a lot like my daughter! They resemble each other strongly. I'm an old man and don't follow video games but from what I'm seeing this is interesting. Is there a way I can see the story without buying/playing the game? And here's a fair question: Could this Andre character beat Joe Louis? In my opinion Joe was the ultimate fighting machine. He could do it all and I don't see many (if anyone) who can beat him at his very best. No matter what strategy he uses I don't see Andre winning. But I do wanna see him fight first before I make a real judgement and compare him to the greats.
Here's the story. Its the best story mode of any sports game imo. And no, I wouldn't pick Andre Bishop to beat Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, etc. Oh, and if yo' daughter really looks like Meagan McQueen, then you got a fine ass daughter!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

GatorPurify
Good discussion. I think he's definitely an all time great of his era. All time great, I guess I'm not sure. But his heart is unquestionable. All those fights that he had to win with the handicaps ( broken hand and all). He does have all around good skills. Nothing mind blowing in regards to one skill, but good in all skills.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Duggerman
Administrator
GatorPurify wrote
Good discussion. I think he's definitely an all time great of his era. All time great, I guess I'm not sure. But his heart is unquestionable. All those fights that he had to win with the handicaps ( broken hand and all). He does have all around good skills. Nothing mind blowing in regards to one skill, but good in all skills.
Good points. I forgot about him overcoming the broken right hand. You could easily say he's the "Holyfield" of his generation. Small-average size, big heart, overcoming huge obstacles one at a time.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Hit Em' Hard
Hit Em' Hard wrote
As for the Randy Orton comparision, I'll let the picture do the talking. Isaac looks to be an even bigger stronger scarier version of Randy Orton. Not identical but strikingly similar.

Whoa. I totally see it now.

Isaac fought weak competition compared to other great champs, sure. But I'll let "the ratings do the talking." Look at his overall rating on FNC. He has a fcuking rating of 95! That's two points higher than Muhammad Ali, who was originally the highest rated at 93. With Frost being rated higher, he could beat Muhammad Ali in his sleep if you play him right. Andre has a 93 rating, so evidently the game producers feel he's a legend. Isaac Frost, too.

So taking all of this into account, Isaac Frost is the baddest mofo on the game with the best rating. Andre Bishop and Muhammad Ali are two points behind. But ratings don't mean everything. After tall, Andre did beat Isaac.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Maximillian
Maximillian wrote
I sent Entaowed this link and he's watching it now. I'm actually looking forward to hearing his detailed analysis of this!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Evolution
In reply to this post by Alexander
Alexander wrote
If Entaowed were here he'd go on and on about how he feels Isaac Frost is on PEDs.
Probably. I look at it this way.

Andre Bishop pulled a "Buster Douglas" against the "invincible" Isaac Frost. Maybe Isaac was overconfident or had a bad night? We would need a rematch to know for sure. People thought Ali beating Liston the first time was a fluke. People thought Foreman beating Frazier was a fluke too.

When a surprise upset like this happens, sometimes a rematch is needed to remove all doubt.

Andre's story is incomplete as of now so I hesitate to call him an all-time great. But if he decided to rest on his laurels after winning the title, I'd say he's an ATG based on his record, heart and accomplishments. Only one loss and that was a dive he took against his obnoxious brother..
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Duggerman
Administrator
Glad to have you back, Evolution. You opened up new possibilities. How would a better prepared Isaac Frost do in a rematch? I imagine he'd be like post-Zaire Foreman - always concerned with pacing himself and afraid to pull the trigger. His new insecurities would allow Andre and other heavyweights to capitalize.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

J.C.
Duggerman wrote
Glad to have you back, Evolution. You opened up new possibilities. How would a better prepared Isaac Frost do in a rematch? I imagine he'd be like post-Zaire Foreman - always concerned with pacing himself and afraid to pull the trigger. His new insecurities would allow Andre and other heavyweights to capitalize.
Like you said, if they fought again Isaac would likely lose. Losing to Andre ruined his confidence. We'll never know but I would always back Andre against Isaac.

If we focus on what DID happen in the game and toss out the "what if" scenarios, then yes. Andre is an all-time great. Not on the Muhammad Ali-Joe Louis- Rocky Marciano level, but he might squeak in under the top ten.

I also gotta piggyback on what someone else said earlier. The FNC producers gave Andre an overall rating of #93, tied with Muhammad Ali in terms of skills, so they evidently think highly of him. I realise that Isaac Frost has the highest rating on the game (95) but they was just because they wanted you to know that he's one bad mutha!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

MAGUIRE
In reply to this post by Zombies Ate Me
He's absolutely an atg and clearly based on Ali in many aspects.

- Muhammad Ali had a 3 year lay-off, Andre Bishop had a 5 year prison lay-off. Both men were in legal trouble for stupid reasons. Andre was set up and Ali was banned for standing up for his religious beliefs and civil rights.

- Muhammad Ali got his jaw broken by Ken Norton but fought on bravely. He was blinded by Sonny Liston but didn't quit then, either. Andre Bishop had to fight on with a broken right hand in one fight.

- Both men were in their thirties and thought to be washed up when they had to fight a younger, bigger mountain of a powerful heavyweight. (Foreman for Ali, Frost for Bishop)

-Both used unheard of strategies to defeat a monster heavyweight champion

This is the most iconic picture of Muhammad Ali. In fact it is one of the most iconic sports photos period.



If Andre Bishop were a real heavyweight, I'm sure that THIS would be his iconic photo.



Both men standing over the biggest, most powerful heavyweight of their respective era.
Forget Andre's accomplishments for a sec and look at his stats. He has power, speed, heart, great chin, etc. He is TIED with Ali on the game in overall ratings! That's how great he is. ATG heavyweight champion indeed.

But I hesitate to say that he would have a long, dominant reign as heavyweight champion. Most likely Isaac Frost would never be the same after losing to Andre Bishop. Like Foreman and Liston, he lost that frightening "invincible" aura and guys wouldn't be afraid of him anymore, so he'd be less of a threat.

I'll bet Andre would soon vacate the title to his little brother Raymond. It would be cool if a sequel was made from Raymond's point of view and you played as him. It would make sense seeing as to how Andre is getting up in age and Raymond is still young and in his prime.

OR it would be fun also to play as Isaac Frost and play him as he works his way back up the ranks WITHOUT DL Mcqueen cheating for him. Isaac is big, slow and lacks stamina so this would put him at a disadvantage against other boxers. There's a lot of places a sequel could go with this.


Zombies Ate Me wrote


Andre Bishop is an all-time great simply for tappin' that ass! She was clearly thirsty for his dick.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Hit Em' Hard
In reply to this post by Evolution
Alexander wrote
Its not just the fact that Andre beat him...it's HOW he beat him.
Gus and Andre were a good team.
If they could come up with those brilliant strategies to beat Mr. "Ice Cold" then they could
develop strategies to beat anybody.
Not ANYBODY. Isaac Frost was a big walking mistake full of weaknesses to exploit. You really think they could come up with strategies to beat a fighting machine like prime Joe Louis? Lennox Lewis? Vitali Klitschko? Muhammad Ali?


Zorro wrote
And here's a fair question: Could this Andre character beat Joe Louis? In my opinion Joe was the ultimate fighting machine. He could do it all and I don't see many (if anyone) who can beat him at his very best. No matter what strategy he uses I don't see Andre winning.
No way does Andre beat a peak Joe Louis. No way in hell. Louis would destroy him the way he destroyed other fighters. Andre might have enough grit to beat Joe Louis from 1950 onward. But before that? Not a chance. Sure the game gave Andre a higher rating than prime Louis but that ties into my next post.

Urban Legend wrote
Isaac fought weak competition compared to other great champs, sure. But I'll let "the ratings do the talking." Look at his overall rating on FNC. He has a fcuking rating of 95! That's two points higher than Muhammad Ali, who was originally the highest rated at 93. With Frost being rated higher, he could beat Muhammad Ali in his sleep if you play him right. Andre has a 93 rating, so evidently the game producers feel he's a legend. Isaac Frost, too.

So taking all of this into account, Isaac Frost is the baddest mofo on the game with the best rating. Andre Bishop and Muhammad Ali are two points behind. But ratings don't mean everything. After tall, Andre did beat Isaac.
The bolded part contradicts EVERYTHING you said earlier in your post. You contradicted yourself in the same post! Ratings aren't everything and don't mean shit really. It's a video game at the end of the day and it all depends on how well you know how to use the boxer you choose.

Evolution wrote

Andre Bishop pulled a "Buster Douglas" against the "invincible" Isaac Frost. Maybe Isaac was overconfident or had a bad night? We would need a rematch to know for sure. People thought Ali beating Liston the first time was a fluke. People thought Foreman beating Frazier was a fluke too.

When a surprise upset like this happens, sometimes a rematch is needed to remove all doubt.

Andre's story is incomplete as of now so I hesitate to call him an all-time great. But if he decided to rest on his laurels after winning the title, I'd say he's an ATG based on his record, heart and accomplishments. Only one loss and that was a dive he took against his obnoxious brother..
I agree with some of this. Andre was a great middleweight but his career was interrupted at his peak. He was in his late '20s when he was thrown in jail and in his thirties when he returned to the ring and fought as a heavyweight. Because he was imprisoned when he was at his very best, we never got to see his full potential.

His story is definitely incomplete. Does he lose his hunger after beating Frost? Are there any legit threats to his title? Does Isaac Frost learn his lesson, come back stronger and kick his ass in a rematch? We don't know! Andre had a good strategy against Frost but maybe he got lucky the way McCall and Rahman did against Lewis. Lewis kicked they asses in rematches! That same thing may happen here. Who knows what a wiser Frost might do the second time around?

Ali proved his greatness. He beat Liston TWICE! Foreman was so devastated by losing to Ali that he didn't box for a year. Andre hasn't fought a rematch with Frost.

And NO!!! If a sequel is made, do NOT put that punk ass annoying fuck Raymond as the lead character. He was so damn obnoxious! His first impression was bad, interrupting his brother's interview. No class at all.

But there's no way I see Andre Bishop as an all-time great. He overcame adversity. That much is true. But he missed out on his prime years and didn't fight anyone important. Isaac Frost was not important. Like I said earlier, he was a creation of DL McQueen. We would have to see a sequel to know how great Andre truly is.

The only thing I agree with most of you on is that Meagan McQueen is one fine piece of ass!

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Phantom Punch
Man this is a great discussion. Ya'll done took a video game concept and turned it into some good conversation. I saw this same topic on boxing24 some years back but it was terrible. Just a bunch of trolls talking shit. Ya'll actually got some damn good points on both ends.

Andre's career was great but more time is needed to know how great. Wins over bums and a freak of nature in Isaac Frost. Thats it in a nutshell. I need to see more.

But I don't agree that he's on the same plane as a Louis or Ali.

P.S.
        I still haven't beaten Isaac Frost in FNC! One day I'll devote few hours to doing just that. If they let you resume from a previous checkpoint it'd be easier. But you have to do it all at once. After losing so much you get frustrated!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Sivul
We don't know enough about Andre or Issac to know if they're among the ATGs. It's best to evaluate someone when their career is over. People didn't consider Sonny Liston an all-time great until decades after his death. Would you believe that Foreman and Frazier were not considered ATGs during their primes either!! People back then routinely ranked Louis, Marciano and Johnson high above them. It wasn't until years later they people realized that those guys were among the absolute best of all time.

If Andre and Isaac never fight again and there's no sequel, then yes, they're considered ATGs. Andre more so.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Zorro
In reply to this post by MAGUIRE
MAGUIRE wrote
He's absolutely an atg and clearly based on Ali in many aspects.

- Muhammad Ali had a 3 year lay-off, Andre Bishop had a 5 year prison lay-off. Both men were in legal trouble for stupid reasons. Andre was set up and Ali was banned for standing up for his religious beliefs and civil rights.

- Muhammad Ali got his jaw broken by Ken Norton but fought on bravely. He was blinded by Sonny Liston but didn't quit then, either. Andre Bishop had to fight on with a broken right hand in one fight.

- Both men were in their thirties and thought to be washed up when they had to fight a younger, bigger mountain of a powerful heavyweight. (Foreman for Ali, Frost for Bishop)

-Both used unheard of strategies to defeat a monster heavyweight champion

This is the most iconic picture of Muhammad Ali. In fact it is one of the most iconic sports photos period.



If Andre Bishop were a real heavyweight, I'm sure that THIS would be his iconic photo.



Both men standing over the biggest, most powerful heavyweight of their respective era.
Forget Andre's accomplishments for a sec and look at his stats. He has power, speed, heart, great chin, etc. He is TIED with Ali on the game in overall ratings! That's how great he is. ATG heavyweight champion indeed.

But I hesitate to say that he would have a long, dominant reign as heavyweight champion. Most likely Isaac Frost would never be the same after losing to Andre Bishop. Like Foreman and Liston, he lost that frightening "invincible" aura and guys wouldn't be afraid of him anymore, so he'd be less of a threat.

I'll bet Andre would soon vacate the title to his little brother Raymond. It would be cool if a sequel was made from Raymond's point of view and you played as him. It would make sense seeing as to how Andre is getting up in age and Raymond is still young and in his prime.

OR it would be fun also to play as Isaac Frost and play him as he works his way back up the ranks WITHOUT DL Mcqueen cheating for him. Isaac is big, slow and lacks stamina so this would put him at a disadvantage against other boxers. There's a lot of places a sequel could go with this.


Zombies Ate Me wrote


Andre Bishop is an all-time great simply for tappin' that ass! She was clearly thirsty for his dick.
Don't forget they both won a gold medal too.

I still haven't watched the gameplay yet but it sounds exciting. My internet went out last week when I tried to watch it. I'll check it out shortly. I love the conversation about it. Must be one hell of a story.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Kid Dynamite
In a word....yes.

How many former heavyweight champions would find a way to outsmart/defeat/knock out Isaac Frost? It's a short list, though I'd put Muhammad Ali and maybe Evander Holyfield on it.

As it stands right now, Andre should be an ATG. Not top ten, but maybe somewhere between 18-30. That one win alone shows why he belongs.

Isaac Frost should be an ATG too considering how hard it is to beat him.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Zorro
OK gang,

I finally got around to watching it and WOW! This is what video games have come to? What an amazing saga! Brilliant storytelling. A real masterpiece. I didn't think video games had stories like this. This almost makes me want to start playing those things.

The characters are one dimensional - Andre the good guy put in bad situations, Gus the enthusiastic and wise trainer, Meagan the love interest (though the romance is hinted at, not shown in full) DL McQueen the loud, obnoxious villian, Raymond Bishop the cocky and stupid little brother and Isaac Frost the overconfident, brutal, monster of the heavyweight champion.

In Isaac I see some of Max Baer too, or at least the way he was portrayed in Cinderella Man.

Is Andre an ATG? I still say no. Nethier is Isaac Frost for that matter. But he and DL McQueen were damn good villians! If Andre were real I'd pick quite a few heavyweights to beat him. I'd pick a number of guys to beat Isaac too. But Isaac is better than Frost not just because he beat him, but also because he accomplished more and showed more heart. Heart can take you a long way. Isaac Frost was guided to the championship by a crooked promotor. Damn this was a good story. I'll watch it again sometime. I really enjoyed it.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

J.C.
In reply to this post by Hit Em' Hard
Hit Em' Hard wrote
Alexander wrote
Its not just the fact that Andre beat him...it's HOW he beat him.
Gus and Andre were a good team.
If they could come up with those brilliant strategies to beat Mr. "Ice Cold" then they could
develop strategies to beat anybody.
Not ANYBODY. Isaac Frost was a big walking mistake full of weaknesses to exploit. You really think they could come up with strategies to beat a fighting machine like prime Joe Louis? Lennox Lewis? Vitali Klitschko? Muhammad Ali?


Zorro wrote
And here's a fair question: Could this Andre character beat Joe Louis? In my opinion Joe was the ultimate fighting machine. He could do it all and I don't see many (if anyone) who can beat him at his very best. No matter what strategy he uses I don't see Andre winning.
No way does Andre beat a peak Joe Louis. No way in hell. Louis would destroy him the way he destroyed other fighters. Andre might have enough grit to beat Joe Louis from 1950 onward. But before that? Not a chance. Sure the game gave Andre a higher rating than prime Louis but that ties into my next post.

Urban Legend wrote
Isaac fought weak competition compared to other great champs, sure. But I'll let "the ratings do the talking." Look at his overall rating on FNC. He has a fcuking rating of 95! That's two points higher than Muhammad Ali, who was originally the highest rated at 93. With Frost being rated higher, he could beat Muhammad Ali in his sleep if you play him right. Andre has a 93 rating, so evidently the game producers feel he's a legend. Isaac Frost, too.

So taking all of this into account, Isaac Frost is the baddest mofo on the game with the best rating. Andre Bishop and Muhammad Ali are two points behind. But ratings don't mean everything. After tall, Andre did beat Isaac.
The bolded part contradicts EVERYTHING you said earlier in your post. You contradicted yourself in the same post! Ratings aren't everything and don't mean shit really. It's a video game at the end of the day and it all depends on how well you know how to use the boxer you choose.

Evolution wrote

Andre Bishop pulled a "Buster Douglas" against the "invincible" Isaac Frost. Maybe Isaac was overconfident or had a bad night? We would need a rematch to know for sure. People thought Ali beating Liston the first time was a fluke. People thought Foreman beating Frazier was a fluke too.

When a surprise upset like this happens, sometimes a rematch is needed to remove all doubt.

Andre's story is incomplete as of now so I hesitate to call him an all-time great. But if he decided to rest on his laurels after winning the title, I'd say he's an ATG based on his record, heart and accomplishments. Only one loss and that was a dive he took against his obnoxious brother..
I agree with some of this. Andre was a great middleweight but his career was interrupted at his peak. He was in his late '20s when he was thrown in jail and in his thirties when he returned to the ring and fought as a heavyweight. Because he was imprisoned when he was at his very best, we never got to see his full potential.

His story is definitely incomplete. Does he lose his hunger after beating Frost? Are there any legit threats to his title? Does Isaac Frost learn his lesson, come back stronger and kick his ass in a rematch? We don't know! Andre had a good strategy against Frost but maybe he got lucky the way McCall and Rahman did against Lewis. Lewis kicked they asses in rematches! That same thing may happen here. Who knows what a wiser Frost might do the second time around?

Ali proved his greatness. He beat Liston TWICE! Foreman was so devastated by losing to Ali that he didn't box for a year. Andre hasn't fought a rematch with Frost.

And NO!!! If a sequel is made, do NOT put that punk ass annoying fuck Raymond as the lead character. He was so damn obnoxious! His first impression was bad, interrupting his brother's interview. No class at all.

But there's no way I see Andre Bishop as an all-time great. He overcame adversity. That much is true. But he missed out on his prime years and didn't fight anyone important. Isaac Frost was not important. Like I said earlier, he was a creation of DL McQueen. We would have to see a sequel to know how great Andre truly is.

The only thing I agree with most of you on is that Meagan McQueen is one fine piece of ass!

Nice exchange. I still say that if Andre hung up the gloves right after knocking out Frost then he's an ATG. Not top ten, but a guy to be remembered.

Isaac Frost had his weaknesses and vulnerabilities as all fighters do. But anyone with a great chin, good footwork and good power could beat him if they were as clever as Andre. But Andre fighting a defensive master like Jack Johnson? Or someone as tough and determined as Rocky Marciano? Muhammad Ali? Joe Louis? These are fights he would lose.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

49-0
Veeeeeeery interesting thread here. But to determine not just Andre's status, we have to evaluate everyone.

Was DL Mcqueen a more vicious promotor than Don King?

Was Gus a better trainer than Cus?

Could Isaac Frost punch harder than prime Foreman or Baer?

Things things play a factor into the story as well if we're going to compare it to real life.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Duggerman
Administrator
49-0 wrote
Was DL Mcqueen a more vicious promotor than Don King?
I doubt it. Don King murdered someone. DL isn't guilty of that, although it is possible that he played a part in Andre's parents' death. Remember that DL said that he offered Andre's father a deal before he died. Andre rejected that same deal and got set up almost immedieatly afterward. Andre said Gus took him and Raymond in after their parents died, so they likely died together. I'll bet DL set them up and made it look like an accident in retailiation for Andre's dad rejecting his offer.

Still, Don and DL have done many of the same things - paying off judges and referees, etc. Don is worse imo because of the murder and ripping off his fighters, though DL could have killed Andre's parents but that's just a theory of mine.


49-0 wrote
Was Gus a better trainer than Cus?
Possibly. Each time Andre was in trouble, Gus developed a winning strategy. Eddie Futch, Emanuel Steward and Jack "Chappy" Blackburn could (and did) come up with strategies to beat anyone and everyone. They find weaknesses and exploit them. Gus was the same way and I have to put him in the league with those guys. Cus D'Amato developed a great style with the peekaboo but he was not a strategist. Worse, he lacked confidence in his fighters.

49-0 wrote
Could Isaac Frost punch harder than prime Foreman or Baer?
I'm afraid so. Here are the stats on the game. First, Foreman.





Now take a look at Isaac Frost's numbers and compare it to Foreman.





You'll see that Foreman's hardest blows are the straight right, right hook and right uppercut. Any of those could result in an instant knockout. Almost all of Isaac's punches are maxed out. His stats are nearly perfect, and he's the highest rated boxer on the game.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

It's Dale
Administrator
Duggerman wrote
I doubt it. Don King murdered someone. DL isn't guilty of that, although it is possible that he played a part in Andre's parents' death. Remember that DL said that he offered Andre's father a deal before he died. Andre rejected that same deal and got set up almost immedieatly afterward. Andre said Gus took him and Raymond in after their parents died, so they likely died together. I'll bet DL set them up and made it look like an accident in retailiation for Andre's dad rejecting his offer.

Still, Don and DL have done many of the same things - paying off judges and referees, etc. Don is worse imo because of the murder and ripping off his fighters, though DL could have killed Andre's parents but that's just a theory of mine.
I thought Don accidently killed a man in a street fight? I didn't know it was intentional.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Malik Wright
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Now take a look at Isaac Frost's numbers and compare it to Foreman.





You'll see that Foreman's hardest blows are the straight right, right hook and right uppercut. Any of those could result in an instant knockout. Almost all of Isaac's punches are maxed out. His stats are nearly perfect, and he's the highest rated boxer on the game.
Yea. Andre is no doubt an atg for whoopin' that giant.
Malik El Debarge Wright
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Evan Fields
In reply to this post by 49-0
49-0 wrote
Veeeeeeery interesting thread here. But to determine not just Andre's status, we have to evaluate everyone.

Was DL Mcqueen a more vicious promotor than Don King?

Was Gus a better trainer than Cus?

Could Isaac Frost punch harder than prime Foreman or Baer?

Things things play a factor into the story as well if we're going to compare it to real life.
Like Duggerman said, we don't know enough about DL's history. It is very possible that he was a murderer like DK but more slick about it. In fact on the game they don't give the impression that DL McQueen's shady business is public knowledge.

Cus D'Amato trained three world champions, four if you count Buster Mathis when he won the NYSA championship, which was recognized as the world heavyweight title in many states before Frazier beat Jimmy Ellis to unify the belts. I don't know how many champions Gus trained. It is implied that Andre's dad was a great middleweight but he never became a champ. No one mentions Gus training anyone else of importance. This is another case of too many holes being in this story.

Isaac Frost is a juggernaut of an athlete. But according to his stats he has heart, too. He's physically better than everyone else on the game. But if you're an intelligent boxer you can beat him.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Entaowed
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Sivul
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Duggerman
Administrator
Entaowed, you do prove a great point about how Bishop and Frost were both in their primes during their championship fight. It certainly wasn't an off-night for Frost, though I could imagine he might pull a "Foreman" and claim that his water was drugged or a voodoo curse was put on him before the fight. lol. Or he might find Jesus the way Foreman did, and return to boxing with an Isaac Frost Refridgerator or something.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Shane
Tough one, isn't it?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Left Hook From Hell...
Shane wrote
Tough one, isn't it?

Drago killed a man, Frost almost killed a man. But I wouldn't be comfortable betting against Isaac Frost. So I bet on him.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Rosco
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote



...would you consider him an All-Time Great? (If you don't know who Andre Bishop is, he's the fictionalist protagonist in the Championship Mode for Fight Night Champion. It's a Hollywood-inspired story!)

When you look at the few things Andre did accomplish, he certainly has the makings of a great heavyweight champion. Think about it.

* He wins the gold model as an amatuer.

* He overcomes a five year layoff.

* He transitions successfully from middleweight to heavyweight.

* He knocks out Isaac Frost, who is a "friggin' animal!" The strategy, intelligence and heart he displayed to beat Frost shows that he belongs in an elite group of heavyweight champions. I'd like to see a sequel story to see how his championship run goes. At 33 years old, he might not have a lengthy reign as champion.

It's too soon to know if he would be an ATG but I think the potential is there. What do ya'll think? Remember that he's a fictional character so there's no real right or wrong. Just opinions.
I'm not sure. He proved to be the greatest of his era when he KO'd Frost. But an ATG? I'm not so sure. ATGs are people like Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman and others. I'd have to see a lot more from Andre before putting him anywhere near that level.

Remember that there was a time when people where predicting that Riddick Bowe and Buster Douglas were ATGs too and we saw what happened there. So I'd have to see what happens next in Andre's career. Maybe he'd have 25 title defenses like Louis, or maybe he loses the belt in his next defense? No idea. But if he retired after Frost he'd be the best of his era. But of all time? I gotta see more. There are more chapters that need to be written.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Andre Bishop Was A Real Boxer...

Duggerman
Administrator
Isaac Frost has been described by most critics and gamers as the hardest boss in video game history and it certainly seems so. Took me almost a year to beat him. His stats on the game are juiced up. Andre doesn't major props for knocking out this beast.

Here's an excerpt from a blog about it.

Designed to be fought in a round-to-round, objective based system; the actual procedure involved in fighting Isaac Frost contributes almost as much to his difficulty as his actual fighting ability.

Possessed of unbalanced punching power, speed, and stamina, Frost holds all the cards from the opening bell, and yet his beastly-ness is further bolstered by the fact that the game forces you to fight him a certain way.

Essentially, throughout each round of the fight you are required to follow a pre-determined gameplan, be it using your legs and hanging back, or landing haymakers to the body.

It’s an entirely inorganic procedure that doesn’t exist outside of the “story mode” of the game, resulting in whatever skills you learned playing the game competitively getting tossed to the curb in terms of usefulness.

To date I have yet to beat Isaac Frost, largely due to his insane attribute bonuses, but the fact that the game forces me to fight him the way it wants me to really grinds my gears to an exceptional degree.
https://aznbadger.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/the-top-10-hardest-boss-fights-runner-ups/
12